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Hello Perry
My first questions..
1) Is it an airless?…or Conventional?
2) You mentioned “clamps”…?
Here are a couple statements…
Filters…if it’s an airless…I have one filter in the Paint Supply Line. That shouldn’t be the problem.
The “Over spray”…if it’s an Airless…I used a certain paint…ooooh…sticky and lot’s of hype from the maker. (They don’t make it anymore.) I had a fine line 1/4” inside the edges…both of them. It was like I had debris in the tip…at exactly the same spot…on both outside edges of the orifice…! I put up with that for job…after job. Then another striper told me that he had the same trouble. The only thing we could do is…1) Laugh. and 2) Realize…it’s not us…! (Did I mention the MFG doesn’t make that paint anymore…!?)
That said…another striper from the Northern U.S. had some paint troubles. He couldn’t get the paint to “break”. He tried “Reducing it”…which is different than simply “thinning” it…= a splash of water or thinner…depends on what you’re spraying. It didn’t help. I suggested another paint…problem solved.
Next…there are two different types of tips for the Airless. One has a “U” cut design…and the other has a “V” cut design. One is for spraying walls…the other is for…Striping…! Titan has a numbering system…1906. Graco’s looks like 319. (Make sure the tip is a Striping tip.)
So…my first thoughts are…add a splash…maybe switch to a different MFG…just to see how their paint sprays…or hopefully it’s the wrong type tip. If these do not work…keep in touch. (I must admit…”Over spray” on an Airless doesn’t sound common.)
If it’s a Conventional…
a) “Reduce” with the proper agent = water or Mineral Spirits or Toluene.
b) Try SW, PPG or ICI…(ICI is now Glidden). I’ve used each MFG’s Latex, Fast Dry Latex and Alkyd, (I’ll use Glidden’s Alkyd today)…(RAE also makes Alkyd). I have never used Acetone Based. And…I don’t want to.
Next…try “upping” the air pressure. It’s the Right Hand Tee valve. It’ll introduce more air into the system…in the gun line…and hopefully “break” the paint up into a nicer, more evenly distributed spray. (I generally expect 40 to 55 lbs.) See how that works.
Then…add a splash of “Reducer”.
Next…on a Conventional…this is weird…turn the tip around…= spin it. You said you did that. Next…turn it a tiny bit more = slightly off center. If that fixes it…I generally start painting. But…it’s an indication that the paint doesn’t want to break.
Last…? Try one of those other MFG’s…just to see what they’re like.
Does that help? I hope this was organized.
Keep in touch. I’m off to stripe. I’ll check back.
DanOK…I’m out.
It sounds like you’re doing everything right.
I’m thinking…fluke.
I know…(3) times in a month does not constitute a fluke.
Sounds more like a developing pattern.
I couldn’t blame you if you became “gun shy”.
I would at least start looking at the next set of lines.
But…I must insist…it’s not old oil based paint.
That said…I don’t know. Let me know if anything new crops up.
DanHello Phil3366
Here’s where I’m at…weird things happen.
But the good thing is this…it’s over.
(I know you may not think so…because you probably have another job lined up.)
But…until I know what type of paint was used…I disagree with whomever told you…”It was because the last striper put down oil based paint.” If that were the cause…Seal would be coming up all over the state…anywhere oil based paint is sold and used…for the last few…decades…?
(That’s how long my company…and many others…have been using oil based paint.)
Beyond that…I don’t know.
The best you can do…if you want…is this…find out what paint was used…do a test shot on the next job…
Again…I hope this helps…even if it’s only a little bit.
Dan…man alive…
I’m impressed. I have to say that your customer is truly impressed and grateful.
I think your crew went the distance. Hats off to you. This customer will boast on you. You can always use him/her as a great reference.
Now…even if I saw the pics…I’m not too sure I could help beyond what I’ve offered.
I’d like to see the pics though. PM me…from PaveManPro.
Let me ask a couple things.
1) Did we ever deduce what type of paint it was? That may not matter if you’re using Latex and/or the “Did Not Adhere” problem is strictly between the Seal and old line.)
2) Was there any type of reaction between the paint and seal…? = dissolving, discoloration…? It sounds like you’re saying “no”.
3) Now…beyond that…I may be out. I’ve never heard of anything like this. I doubt I’d be too afraid of it happening again. (I know it happened 3 times in a month though.)
4) As much as I hate to now say this…I wouldn’t rule out some SealMaster flub. Let’s face it…the trouble is between the Seal and old line. So…how many jobs have you sealed using this “batch” of sealer? That said…SealMaster has been around and is well respected. They should have more insight and resources to pull from in helping figure this out. AND…if it’s a Seal problem…things happen. No one is perfect. Stick with them.
4) To their defense…they may refer to the old lines = let’s take a closer look at them. (Is that too late? Is there any debris left over?) I wonder if the last striper coated the line? That may sound like a weird question…but…this whole thing is weird. That said…Why are the lines only 10″ long?
5) I think I’m still comfortable saying it not the “oil based” paint. There are two types of Seal = Coal Tar and Asphalt. This cannot…is not…the first time either typel has been sprayed, brushed onto old oil based lines.
6) Last…I would walk away from the customer. Here’s what I mean…tell them the job is over. You’re sorry for the inconvenience. You’re not sorry for fixing it. You’ll figure it out before the next time. AND…thank them for the work. You’ll send an Invoice. And…any kind words they can spread around about your company would be greatly appreciated. And…if they ever have any problems…you’ll help…and you can be trusted. (Phil…don’t involve them any more. Let them go back to their life. They’ll appreciate that.)
Bottom line…if you want…
PM me the pics.
I’m not sure I can advise beyond what I have.
SealMaster might be able to help now.
Why 10″ long?
Did you spray the entire job…even though the trouble was just the lines?
Tell the customer. “See ya next time!…no extra charge…!”
Man alive Phil…I hope that helped…some…
DanHello Phil3366
In the 2nd paragraph…I doubt it…= Phil, (may I call you Phil), as a Customer, I would see a price difference of…what?…40 cents per foot x 18′ x 60 cars…? x 200 cars? Probably more like $1.00 per foot…? (We…you and I) cannot forget the cleanup…or cost of the blades. I know…practically…we would grind…then blow off the parking lot to prepare for Seal. So…the labor wouldn’t be “another” charge. But…your bid would prompt two things…
1) As a Customer…I would think…what? I’ve never heard of that.
2) I’ll get another bid…(if I didn’t already have one…or two…that were very close in price…then I’d see yours.)
Neither scenario is cool.
I’m still TOTALLY in your camp. I stripe everywhere in Ohio…in cold weather = Spring = NOW…!…and later October, evenings…through the first week of December…WITH OIL…!
Next…I need to clarify something…
Scenario (1) … If I…as a Striper…stripe the Shopping Center with Oil based paint…then (1) year goes by…and then you Seal Coat the place…you should be fine…LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE…ALL OVER THE CITY…! THEN…if I as a Striper come in and “Re-stripe To Existing Layout and Pattern Over Seal”…Phil…I would definitely…definitely…use LATEX paint. And WE…you and I…would be fine. Bill it. Pay me in (30) days. Let’s look for more.
Scenario (2) If I…as a Striper…stripe the Shopping Center with Oil based paint…then (1) year goes by…and then you Seal Coat the place…you should be fine…LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE…ALL OVER THE CITY…! THEN…if I as a Striper come in and “Re-stripe To Existing Layout and Pattern Over Seal”…THEN…use Acetone…OR…Oil based paint…again…over fresh seal…I would definitely…definitely…expect a problem. MINE…not yours…to solve.
So…here’s my question…which scenario is it?
Here’s my first idea for a fix. I would Restripe a few…”far out” lines with a different paint. Not…lines up close to the front doors. I’m expecting this will cover and suffice. But…I don’t know all the molecular crap with paint. I do know…that when I painted…solid paint…over a concrete floor that the “paint” was actually a grey stain. It reacted with the old stripes…in some places. It blistered. I waited. I scraped a few places. I re painted with the grey stain…again…then it was fine. Here’s my point…sometimes…some paints react with the “stuff” under them…whether it’s your seal or the old stripe. I DO NOT think it’s a reaction though between YOUR seal and the OLD, existing paint stripe. Phil…I’m thinking it was the NEWLY applied paint…to your fresh seal. I’m sorry to say this…but…I THINK…your striper may have sprayed Acetone. Acetone will eat. Check me. Check me. Check me. AND…I’m also on the side of your striper. Go back. Stripe with Latex over some remote lines. Wait (3) days…no reaction?…Is the final product ok with the owner?…Re-stripe the entire thing. Work out the money with the striper…privately…later. BUT…attack this thing together…as a team…with the Owner.
Next…if it’s gooey. Try Seal Coating over a few remote lines as a test. Then Re-stripe those lines only…again…with Latex. Friend…we all make mistakes. I don’t care. I will take it on the jaw…if it’s my fault. I will even take it on the jaw…if it’s not… to cover for someone. But we’re not done.
A) Tell me which scenario it is.
B) Try Test # 1.
If it works…we’re done. If not…
C) Try Test # 2. Bill the job.
Behind the scenes…work it out with the Striper. And…stick up for him…or her.
Keep me posted.
Last…as a note…Alkyd based paints are still out there. They are just different formulas…than what they used to be. You don’t have to go to Acetone. Sherwin Williams probably still sells an Alkyd. Seal Master may. RAE Products sells it. Glidden sells it. Check me. I’m not saying I’m right in my assumptions = I think Acetone was used over fresh Seal. I am saying…as a Striper…I forgot…once…and sprayed Alkyd over fresh Seal. When I realized…20 lines later…I looked back. Nothing wild happened. The job was still fine. But I did see a small reaction. The new White stripe…of mine…turned a slight “parchment” color at the edges. That’s it. BUT…I never “forgot” since. BUT…when I didn’t have my H/C stencil…on a different job…I came back later. And…to save time…I only brought my H/C stencil and a Blue Spray Can = Aerosol Striping Paint. I didn’t know it was “Oil Based”. I sprayed the H/C. It got gooey. It ran. Fuzzy edges. Crap…! I learned. So…what I am saying…IF…IF…your striper used oil based paint…I don’t think it would be a scary mess. But…I do know Sherwin Williams offers great advice in their seminars. I just went to one, Thursday, Columbus OH. They point out…correctly…Acetone will eat..= CLEAN…! out your machine. So…before you put Acetone inside a Striping Machine…make sure it’s clean. Why…? Again…Acetone…is a stripper…(Goggle it)…it will eat small deposits of old paint…inside the striper…and then probably clog it. Phil…that’s why…I think…Acetone was used. If I’m wrong…I apologize…right now.
Check me.
Again…keep in touch. Keep me posted.
And again…your Striper will help. Stick up for him or her. Please.
DanHey Shepoutside
Those are great. I love the ramp.
I do know someone who also uses one of those “Platforms” that slips into the sleeve of a trailer hitch.
I love the ramp…especially if you work from the “home garage” and all you’re doing is a (20) line job with one stencil…or even a larger job…just to get into it…like a low garage.
Cool pics.
Thanks.
DanHello Jed
This isn’t a bad idea…but…take a look at (10) parking lots…that you visit.
Don’t make a trip…unless you want to…just in your everyday travels…look at the lines.
Stripers exist. We stripe everyday. We stripe every parking lot. Every parking lot.
Last…we all use Airless Walk Behinds…well…90% of us use Airless…9% use Conventionals…1% use other means.
(I’m guessing on the “Market Share” numbers…but I do know just about every striper in my large town…we all use Airless Walk Behinds.)
Do not let this small concern of a friend dissuade you.
If you want to stripe…stripe. I would and I do.
If ypu need help…ask any question. I’ll help.
Dan Z.Hello Summit
Try this…crank the pressure all the way up…then maybe back off just a quarter turn.
Then spray it.
If that works…you’re done. If not…
Next…thin…that…paint. You can add…I think about 20%. I think that’s too much .
(It equals (1) gallon to a five gallon bucket…!)
But…here’s the thought.
If your pump has to pump something as thin as water…it’ll say…”Hey this is easy…I can “keep up…!”
BUT…if your pump then has to pump “pudding”…it’ll say…”Hey…this is hard to pump…I can hardly keep up…!”
So…somewhere…in between those two “thicknesses” …it’s becoming harder to pump.
So…the line gets thin = 3 1/2″ wide…but when the pump cycles…it then moves to a nice 4 1/2″ wide line.
So again…here’s the first thing that comes to my mind…increase the pressure to the pump…turn it all the way up.
Again…if that works…then back it off one quarter of a turn…if it’s still not “Hour Glassing”…cool…turn it back another quarter turn…until it does “Hour Glass”…then turn it back UP the quarter turn.
That said…(back to thinning)…you can also add one cup or two cups…= a splash of water to the paint in question…(if it’s water based paint…!) Stir it in. Cycle it too. THEN…spray it again. If it’s a tiny bit thinner…it’ll “break up” more easily and spray consistently. This is another way of also saying…Your pump will now say…”Hey…this is a little easier to pump…! I can keep up.”
And…last…let me know a couple of things…
1) What type paint is it. Why? This occurred with another person. It’s not uncommon. But he changed MFG’s…and the problem went away.
2) What size tip are you using? Why? Because if it’s a .017 orifice…it just may be harder to pump that mixture of paint through this tiny orifice. (This is probably not the problem. But…I still want to keep track.)
Bottom line…
Crank up the pressure. Tell your pump…”C’mon friend…work a little harder.”
Here’s another note…some stripers have their engine also “wide open”. (As well as having the pump cranked up all the way = wide open.) Obviously this will allow the pump to work to it’s fullest too.
Me…? I back my engine and pump off a small amount. That’s just me. It all still works fine.
2) Add a small amount of water…(…if it’s water based paint…)…to the paint. Then…cycle it = mix it in good…and cycle it…= get that new paint thickness running through the machine and lines too. Then…try it again.
Last…don’t be surprised if it’s a mixture of these (2) ideas…= turn the pump up a little…and add a small amount of water…(to water based paint)…once in a while.
Your pump has plenty of power.
Let me know how this works out.
Keep in touch.
DanHello Phil3366
I’m a striper. I’ve never heard of this. Are you a Sealer or Striper?
If I were a Sealer…I’d think…”No…it’s not my Seal…and it’s not the old line.”
By the time you seal over the old line…they’re scuffed, etc…not to mention the pavement is already “rough” enough to allow Seal to adhere…and…the old lines are certainly not “oily” to the extent that Seal…all of a sudden…doesn’t stick.
Plus…we’d have this problem everywhere. I’m on you’re side. It’s not you.
That said…I just went to a Sherwin Williams / Graco Paint Show Exhibit. There was a certain kind of “Fast Dry”…or “Acrylic Acetone…?”…that will bleed off too quickly…?…or…not stick as well because the “skinning” occurs so fast…that the paint cannot allow the remaining ingredients to bleed through the skin…and therefore not allow a bond…something like that…etc. I can’t help beyond that. But…I really, really doubt that it’s…all of a sudden…your Seal just doesn’t stick.
I hope I helped somehow.
DanHello Bryan
If the bid was to “Re-stripe to Existing Layout and Pattern”…the answer isssssssssssss………kinda.
I always snap all lines when I’m Re-striping over fresh seal. Yes…I can still see the old lines. They’re hard not to see.
But…I mark the tail ends = all the same length…and…I snap all lines = mine are now the straight ones.
So…I do not have to Layout. And…I make the job better in a few ways…
1) Lots of new paint.
2) I make sure all the new lines are the same length.
3) I make sure all the lines are now straight.
That said…if there’s a total blunder…I’d fix it. Talk about it first…you’ll have that opportunity.
Over seal is a great place for new stripers or semi-experienced stripers to move into.
Here’s why…if you forget to let go of the trigger…you can just Seal Coat out the mistake.
I’ve written about this and more in my book. Go to my site. You can see the Table of Contents. Click the link that says “Read some of my book”…
Did I help?
Keep in touch.
DanHello Gator
The quick answer is that you don’t. You can still see the lines…even after (2) coats of seal is applied…on almost every job.
Gator…it’s hard NOT to see them.
That said…I always did try to see the lot before it was seal coated. Sometimes…and in (16) years…I can only remember…well…I can’t remember a time when I couldn’t find the lines.
Next…the seal coat companies I followed know how to help. They would say…”Hey Dan, you may want to look at this one before we cover it up. There’s a few lines that seem “double” and multiple colors.”
Gator, that’s a good crew.
Next…if you cannot see the old lines…because maybe they were very worn…or it’s kinda dark…
a) Start looking where a lines should be.
b) Look in the grass for H/C signs too.
c) Look at the “top” of the stall. Most of the time…if a line is so worn…the top 2′ remains, simply because it sees less traffic.
d) Walk around in circles. Catch the Sun light right and the line can be seen. (When it’s between you and the Sun.)
And…even when I had some trouble finding some lines…at first…when I did find one…I almost immediately found the rest.
And…remember…on 99% of all jobs…it’s hard NOT to see them.
Last…a horror story…do not use “Roofing Caps” or something like this to “install into the ground. A competitor…no really…it was my competitor…who did this…on a really large lot. This well know, large Insurance giant then called me the next time…told me not to do it…because the snow plow…months later…plowed them all up…and many…MANY…people experienced flat tires.
Gator…take a look at the lot…make a diagram…if you want…and you’ll see. When you get to the job…you can still see the lines.
I hope this helps.
Let me know.
DanHello Linescapes
I never strain.
Some do. I don’t.
That said…I also use my common sense. If I have a few gallons that have seen alot of action…I’d strain it…then add it into a (5) that I have opened.
But again…right out of the bucket…nope. 99.9% = I do not strain.
Next…the question of “No Power”…makes me wonder. I have all gas powered Airless Machines.
What do you have?
DanI had a call too. My machines are full of Anti-freeze. I am going to look at it. But…
I’ll probably sub the job out to another Striper.
That said…I’ll probably go too…at least snap some lines.
Dan
